Izack Hunt Does Anyone Else Find This Name Funny
Anonymous 
06/14/22(Tue)03:30:28 No.20523270
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)03:30:28 No.20523270
Does anyone else find Milton a much more difficult read than others from a similar time period like Shakespeare and Spenser? I don't know exactly what it is, but I finished reading book 6 yesterday and I think I'm going to have to put it down for a while because I'm really not understanding much.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)05:18:36 No.20523531
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)05:18:36 No.20523531
>>20523270
I agree with you. I can't really vocalize why other than that the verse feels unnatural to me. I understand the words I'm reading but can't for the death of me attribute meaning to them. Paradise Lost is so far the only thing I attempted that unironically filtered me
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)05:24:53 No.20523548
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)05:24:53 No.20523548
nah desu, spenser is by far the hardest for me to follow. So many characters and I feel like the plot jumps in confusing directions starting from Faerie Queen book 3 especially.
Milton is easy as fuck after a short adjustment to his style. I honestly find the romantics more confusing than milton, hes pretty tidy.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)05:43:05 No.20523584
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)05:43:05 No.20523584
>>20523270
Difficulty:
Shakespeare > Milton > Spencer
Spencer's plot-lines and characters are difficult to keep track of, especially given the work's length; but he's still the easiest of the three considering the ease of his language.Shakespeare blows the other two out of the water. I suppose if you watched it it would be easier, but the key difficulty with him is that of the obtuse metaphors which require you to be constantly mentally readied for them; if you're familiar with the specific work enough that you can remember all the meanings of the trickier bits, than it makes the rest of the work comparatively legible.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)06:16:05 No.20523692
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)06:16:05 No.20523692
>>20523270
I find Shakespeare harder because of the obscure words he uses. Milton's grammatical structure can be pretty convoluted and dense, but at the end of the day, I can pretty much get what he's saying (sometimes after a bit of struggle).Shakespeare on the other hand just uses way too many words the meaning of which I can't fathom. Constantly having to look stuff up.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)06:43:41 No.20523773
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)06:43:41 No.20523773
>>20523270
Pound talks about this and criticizes him for it, it's because he uses constructions from Latin that don't make as much sense in English. What do you think of it besides the difficulty of the language though? I'm reading it at the moment as well and I'm going back and forth on how I feel about it, I'm not sure if I would recommend it but I do enjoy it a fair amount at times.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)06:45:59 No.20523781
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)06:45:59 No.20523781
>>20523270
Bro this guy really named MILTON
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)07:01:34 No.20523829
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)07:01:34 No.20523829
>>20523781
You mean hight Milton
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)07:15:26 No.20523869
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)07:15:26 No.20523869
>>20523692
Get an edition with the word definitions at bottom.I recommend Norton.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)07:20:35 No.20523883
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)07:20:35 No.20523883
>>20523773 is correct and Pound exposed him.
Milton writes Latin verse in the English language. You can love it or hate it but it's certainly "unnatural" as far as English goes.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)07:26:17 No.20523894
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)07:26:17 No.20523894
>>20523773
I think its alright. I like Satan a lot obviously, his monologues and soliloquys are pretty banging when I can understand them, apart from that I'm not too sure, but it is still decent. Something a bit strange that happened with me tho is that the other week I decided to re-read Keats' Hyperion in the morning before work (it was fuckin divine m8), and then when I read Paradise Lost later on that day it was like my brain was perfectly aligned with it, I could understand everything and it all flowed perfectly for about the dozen pages that I read then. Then the next day it was back to being difficult as fuck to understand. Bit weird init
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)08:01:49 No.20523997
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)08:01:49 No.20523997
>>20523894
>Keats' Hyperion
Been saving this one as a treat for myself after finishing some more of the old epics, glad to hear it praised. That is interesting though, I know Blake was inspired by Milton so it's likely enough Keats was too, either through him or directly, and I suppose some of the "old timey" language might be the same across that century and a half; but still, having a temporary effect like that is weird, you were just in deep immersion mode I guess.The back half has considerably less of Satan so if that's what you're in it for then you've gotten most of his role already, besides the obvious. But yeah there's some parts that are definitely not as of much interest from a "plot" point of view, more about aesthetics + a bit of philosophy, though not particularly original on that front but nicely portrayed. If you're interested enough though, I'd say just give it some time, maybe read some of his shorter poems or other stuff from the time. I wouldn't rank it as like a top tier Great Work though so there's no need to feel too bad about dropping it.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)08:09:39 No.20524018
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)08:09:39 No.20524018
No. In fact, it's some of the most beautiful things I've ever read.As new waked from soundest sleep,
Soft on the flowery herb I found me laid,
In balmy sweat; which with his beams the sun
Soon dried, and on the reeking moisture fed.
Straight toward Heaven my wondering eyes I turned,
And gazed a while the ample sky; till, raised
By quick instinctive motion, up I sprung,
As thitherward endeavouring, and upright
Stood on my feet: about me round I saw
Hill, dale, and shady woods, and sunny plains,
And liquid lapse of murmuring streams; by these,
Creatures that lived and moved, and walked, or flew;
Birds on the branches warbling; all things smiled;
With fragrance and with joy my heart o'erflowed.
Myself I then perused, and limb by limb
Surveyed, and sometimes went, and sometimes ran
With supple joints, as lively vigour led:
But who I was, or where, or from what cause,
Knew not; to speak I tried, and forthwith spake;
My tongue obeyed, and readily could name
Whate'er I saw. Thou Sun, said I, fair light,
And thou enlightened Earth, so fresh and gay,
Ye Hills, and Dales, ye Rivers, Woods, and Plains,
And ye that live and move, fair Creatures, tell,
Tell, if ye saw, how I came thus, how here?--
Not of myself;--by some great Maker then,
In goodness and in power pre-eminent:
Tell me, how may I know him, how adore,
From whom I have that thus I move and live,
And feel that I am happier than I know.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)08:10:23 No.20524023
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)08:10:23 No.20524023
>>20523270
it's a little confusing because he has really really long relative clauses that contain multiple metaphors or literary references, but once you get used to keeping tabs on the start and end of each stanza it gets easier.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)08:37:10 No.20524116
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)08:37:10 No.20524116
>>20524018
This seems miles easier to read than Dante.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)08:45:24 No.20524136
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)08:45:24 No.20524136
>>20523270
I don't find Milton all that compelling. Paradise Lost is basically just a biblical fanfic set to metre. I don't think he's even half the poet Shakespeare was. Maybe not even a quarter. The work itself is impressive — don't get me wrong — but it's impressive from an engineering standpoint, in that he was able to write an epic poem that ticks all the boxes of the form. I feel that over the generations, a line of academics kind of just said, "Well, I guess this is an epic poem, and because it's an epic poem it's an accomplishment, and because it's an accomplishment it's worthy of recognition," and as those academics fucked their intellectual cousins and spawned a new generation of academic grubs who inherited their intellectual DNA this attitude just kind of persisted — probably because nobody actually cares about Paradise Lost enough to say otherwise — until here we are in Current Year with this gigantic, drab poundcake of a "classic" which everyone talks up but nobody really knows why... except for a handful of Christcucks, to whom PL's approach to Bible fanfic is the best thing since Dante, and roughly equivalent to an even gayer version of capeshit.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)09:05:19 No.20524198
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)09:05:19 No.20524198
>>20524136
>those academics fucked their intellectual cousins
Hot
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)09:10:56 No.20524212
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)09:10:56 No.20524212
>>20523270
I remember reading that even people in the 18th century found it difficult
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)09:15:18 No.20524228
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)09:15:18 No.20524228
>>20524136
That's a bit too far but I can see you're ideologically triggered by it. There are absolutely epic poems that are forgotten and not lauded "just for being epics", so that idea doesn't hold up. Milton was very influential through the figure of the rebellious Satan which served as a reference point for various later Promethean ideas, and his project of reinterpreting and dramatizing the Old Testament stories explicitly in light of the New, and using it to attempt to justify sovereignty in the post-Reformation intellectual climate. Obviously you can poke countless holes in his logic, but you're shooting yourself in the foot if you discard it for that reason. The point for scholars is the original aspects of the ideas whether they are unassailable or not, the point for readers is the aestheticization of the ideas and the way they are turned into poetry/narrative. I agree that people tend to idealize works that have the appearance of grand scale, but there is plenty of worth on a stanza-by-stanza basis, it's not just long for the sake of being long. The only parts that really fall flat are where he is "coping" for lack of a better term and trying to explain contradictory things to the detriment of the actual poetry, and this happens a fair amount, but it's not enough to disqualify the very real aesthetic, dramatic, and philosophical beauty of the poem.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)09:23:14 No.20524249
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)09:23:14 No.20524249
>>20524228
Don't steelman my argument too much. You were completely correct in apprehending my general aversion to Christianity, and I'll be the first to say that I have given Paradise Lost an unfair shake. I did so intentionally. If I were to be purely rational, I would of course admit a great majority of your points in that post are much fairer and more circumspect. That said, I am not a rational person, and it's impossible for me to overlook the basic, axiomatic fact that I really just don't like Milton or Paradise Lost. Cheers, anon. Thanks for the interesting post regardless.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)09:28:42 No.20524267
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)09:28:42 No.20524267
>>20524228
>There are absolutely epic poems that are forgotten and not lauded "just for being epics"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epic_poems
Many of them are much better than Milton. To be fair Milton is largely a national writer. I mean he's considered secondary in non-english speaking countries, aside from a brief moment of glory in the early romantic period (like the translation by Chateaubriand).
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)09:51:30 No.20524317
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)09:51:30 No.20524317
>>20524249
I think I pseuded out a bit saying he was trying to justify sovereignty honestly, it's probably a bit more complicated than that. And don't worry about it, this is not a place for rational thought, or thought of any kind, it is a silly place for silly people.>>20524267
That wasn't the question but as the other guy said it was not meant too seriously in the first place. Thanks for the list though, learning about random epics is fun. If you want some real entertainment check out Richard Blackmore, Pope's Peri Bathos gives some lovely excerpts from his Milton-inspired Biblical epics of the early 18th century.Do you have any particular recommendations of good ones I might not know? I am by no means interested in holding up Milton as the pinnacle of epic poets, he's just one among many that I find interesting. The Chateaubriand thing is cool too, I was checking out his list of works recently but I didn't know he did translations.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:00:17 No.20524340
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:00:17 No.20524340
>>20523894
>Someone else besides me talking about Keats Hyperion
What the fuck, has my shilling paid off?Keats Hyperion is a more natural English version of Milton (he stopped writing the poem partly because he thought it was too full of Miltonisms). It's heavily discussed in his letters which you should read. But as T.S Eliot said: "we will have to wait for Keats to finish Hyperion for someone to have taken something positive from Milton, and it would have been a masterpiece of the English language" (slight paraphrase, it's from his first lecture on Milton). Keats believed that Milton was someone who you could admire, but never take anything from because attempting to copy his verse--full of latinisms--would never amount to anything. I would also check out Claudians "Rape of Proserpine" because it hits a lot of the same marks for me; I love anything to do with the cosmos and their are great descriptions of stuff like that there.
As for the poem itself, there isn't much of a reason to read past book 6 OP. It only gets worse.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:04:01 No.20524349
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:04:01 No.20524349
>>20524317
Depends about what you know.
In Latin the Africa of Petrarch and Punica of Situs (both about the second Punic war) are great and rarely mentioned. Jerusalem Delivered is arguably my favorite.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:04:39 No.20524353
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:04:39 No.20524353
>>20524267
>Many of them
Lol, there aren't even that many *good* epic poems in the first place. The only ones you can argue are better are Homer and Dante, Melville, Ovid and maybe Virgil. Everything else is definitely subpar off the top of my head
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:11:27 No.20524375
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:11:27 No.20524375
>>20524340
Robert Bridges is an interesting imitator/modernizer of Milton (or so I've heard, I haven't really read him yet), so you might check him out if that interests you.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:23:15 No.20524407
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:23:15 No.20524407
>>20524349
I actually just read about the Petrarch one somewhat randomly, I had no idea he had written an epic. Sadly I have very little Latin or Italian yet but I usually content myself with reading side-by-side with a translation, though I suppose for the more obscure stuff that may not be an option. Jerusalem Delivered is one I wasn't sure about based on what I'd seen about it so I appreciate having a positive opinion to take into consideration, my philosophy is that I like to be optimistic about as many works as possible since it gives me more to look forward to. Of course this often ends in disappointment, but sometimes my expectations are exceeded in ways I hadn't conceived of.>>20524353
Yeah it's definitely not easy to get right, they're mostly more valuable as historical artifacts.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:23:27 No.20524411
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:23:27 No.20524411
>>20524349
>Jerusalem delivered
What, who likes that shitty Virgil and Orlando furioso rip off
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:27:11 No.20524425
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:27:11 No.20524425
>>20523584
>but the key difficulty with him is that of the obtuse metaphors which require you to be constantly mentally readied for them
Just get the Pelican Shakespeare where all the archaic words and metaphors are briefly explained in unobtrusive footnotes.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:30:51 No.20524433
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:30:51 No.20524433
>>20523773
>>20523883
So Milton is basically like the Douay-Rheims, which was an English translation of the Bible from Latin that tended to follow Latin grammatical structure rather than the English one due to an admittedly honest effort to be very literal?
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:35:08 No.20524445
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:35:08 No.20524445
>>20524425
Yes, but this is the pleb option. Whenever I'd see a number next to a passage I'd always desperately run it through my mind to make sure I understood it, then checked to see if I was right. It's a bad feeling not understanding.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:37:53 No.20524451
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:37:53 No.20524451
>>20524445
>Yes, but this is the pleb option.
No, it's the academic option. Plebs don't use the Pelican.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)10:39:06 No.20524458
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)10:39:06 No.20524458
>>20524445
This makes some sense for metaphors but with the old timey slang it's not worth trying to decipher on your own imo.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)11:13:43 No.20524587
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)11:13:43 No.20524587
Thinking in terms of difficulty is pseudy. Think in terms of sovl.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)11:15:48 No.20524594
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)11:15:48 No.20524594
>>20524433
To some extend Milton reads like a quite literal translation of poems initially written in Latin.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)11:27:30 No.20524618
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)11:27:30 No.20524618
>>20523692
This basically. It's difficult for the vast majority of modern readers to approach Shakespeare without a reference book handy, or just a student edition that has exhaustive notations.I agree with people saying Milton's verse reads somewhat unnaturally, but it is still in my opinion a creative, distinct style that at least doesn't require extensive notations and the clarification of terms peculiar to his era.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)12:26:26 No.20524815
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)12:26:26 No.20524815
>>20523270
I agree with you. I can't really vocalize why other than that the verse feels unnatural to me. I understand the words I'm reading but can't for the death of me attribute meaning to them. Paradise Lost is so far the only thing I attempted that unironically filtered me
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)13:31:08 No.20525033
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)13:31:08 No.20525033
>>20524815
That's because you're reading Latin
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)16:30:59 No.20525748
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)16:30:59 No.20525748
Can someone give me a good list of epic poems? I really liked Homers stuff and I read Keats Hyperion when someone mentioned it in the thread, will paradise lost be like that?Long poems are really starting to capture my interest in general.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)16:41:09 No.20525782
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)16:41:09 No.20525782
>>20524407
no, they're valuable as poetry, an art form that filters the midwit zoomers on this board.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)16:44:21 No.20525805
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)16:44:21 No.20525805
>>20525748
milton and spenser are both better than Keats. Wordsworth's The Prelude is a great "epic" poem, but its more of a psychological work.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)16:45:32 No.20525810
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)16:45:32 No.20525810
>>20525748
Progression of epics goes Homer, Virgil, Ariosto, Tasso, Milton and that makes all of them relevant in European literature, read Spencer if you want but he is just used as an image bucket by some Romantics
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)17:23:51 No.20525925
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)17:23:51 No.20525925
>>20523869
I actually got a fat Norton complete Shakespeare, but it's intimidatingly large lol, also literally unwieldy. But I've been thinking about cracking it open. Have to finish Samson Agonistes first, though
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)17:43:17 No.20525983
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)17:43:17 No.20525983
>>20525925
Enjoy Milton's misogy-kino, anon.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)18:12:09 No.20526096
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)18:12:09 No.20526096
>>20524018
Incredible. Elevating! Enlivening! Just one question:>In goodness and in power pre-eminent:
How would you say we're supposed to read this line? Seems like it's 11 syllables.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)18:43:44 No.20526213
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)18:43:44 No.20526213
>>20526096
Power is one syllable.
in GOODness AND in POWER preEMiNENT
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)18:47:42 No.20526233
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)18:47:42 No.20526233
>>20525782
You think they all have value as poetry? I'm gonna guess that many of them can safely be skipped, as whatever value they have on a technical level as poetry probably does not justify the time investment of reading an obscure epic even if you use the method I mentioned rather than actually learning the language in order to read it. If it has value only as poetry, not in terms of narrative/character/ideas, it can still be worthwhile, but what it offers is a different sort of value and it's perfectly reasonable to say "I look to literature to provide this particular kind of value and literature does not have that kind of value is not what I want to read". That being said, the specific value of poetry is certainly underappreciated, but it's more technical, aesthetic and rarefied compared to the value of stories and ideas so it only makes sense. But yeah compared to in any real literary discussion, poetry is definitely underrepresented here, it's pretty sad.>>20526096
Power = pow'r.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)18:54:01 No.20526256
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)18:54:01 No.20526256
>>20526233
Im not disagreeing poetry is a matter of taste, but to act like its "only of historical value" is the fault of the reader who hasn't learned to enjoy poetry for poetry's sake, not the fault of poetry or epic poems as a form. Wanting them to have modern narratives is not the fault of the epics themselves.I think the major english epics (milton and spenser) are great poetry, and most of the major poets long poems are interesting to read. I dont think theres much value to reading most epics in translation though outside of historical reasons, unless the translation is itself an impressive work of arrangement.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)18:59:50 No.20526278
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)18:59:50 No.20526278
>>20524136
More people are Christian than you imagine. If you're not Christian, you won't get it, which certainly isn't true of Shakespeare
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)19:02:10 No.20526285
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)19:02:10 No.20526285
>>20524407
My impression is that the Ariosto epics were like Pop Culture of the time, which is why they have all but vanished from college syllabi/the literary record.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)19:05:15 No.20526292
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)19:05:15 No.20526292
>>20525748
Dante>>20525983
it would be more sexist to say that women aren't the source of half the evil in the world. don't they want their agency?
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)19:10:01 No.20526316
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)19:10:01 No.20526316
>>20526213
>>20526233
Eh, it still doesn't really sound right. Also, wouldn't he have marked the elision with an apostrophe?Can either of you or someone else report how often or if at all does Milton deviate from his blank verse?
I saw someone say that Samson Agonistes is irregular (in the chorus), but GM Hopkins was arguing that he was moving towards Sprung Rhythm, or something.
Long ago I saw people on here argue about that. One guy said that Milton never deviates (that it's just scholars who can't read him right). Someone disagreed.
The argument repris'd anew I please...
Frankly, I can never really read Milton as straight blank verse. It wobbles too widely & is frequently too "alive" for that.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)19:22:28 No.20526356
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)19:22:28 No.20526356
>>20526256
>not the fault of the epics themselvesOh absolutely, I just meant the value it has to a modern non-specialist reader, I wasn't trying to make any statement on "objective value".
>>20526316
>wouldn't he have marked the elisionThis seems to vary between editions. Power as "pour" rhyming with sour sounds more natural to me if anything. The example the word first brings to mind is Yeats' Leda and the Swan, I'm pretty sure it's pronounced the same way there. But yeah I don't tend to worry too much about these details, maybe that's just me being a pleb though.
>>20526285
According to wiki it seems like Ariosto was a bit self-aware but yeah you could probably make an argument for some of the stuff like that being essentially schlock.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)19:24:13 No.20526365
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)19:24:13 No.20526365
>>20526356
>you could probably make an argument for some of the stuff like that being essentially schlock.
I'd be happy for it to turn out that he was unjustly neglected, but this kind of thing tends to shake out over the centuries, doesn't it?Anyway, there's something indefinable in poetry that doesn't belong to the poet himself. I think time shows whether or not you have that secret X factor.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)19:59:19 No.20526508
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)19:59:19 No.20526508
>>20526365
For the most part, yeah, although there's some amount of herd mentality involved and some works have definitely ended up being "reassessed" by critics after long periods of neglect.
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Anonymous
06/14/22(Tue)21:27:21 No.20526864
Anonymous 06/14/22(Tue)21:27:21 No.20526864
>>20526096
>>20526316
Are you so retarded that you actually ready iambic verse like "da-DUM". Jesus Christ what happened to this board
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Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)03:26:32 No.20528161
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)03:26:32 No.20528161
>>20523270
I agree with you. I can't really vocalize why other than that the verse feels unnatural to me. I understand the words I'm reading but can't for the death of me attribute meaning to them. Paradise Lost is so far the only thing I attempted that unironically filtered me
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Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)03:28:23 No.20528167
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)03:28:23 No.20528167
Good thread thanks
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Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)03:31:31 No.20528179
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)03:31:31 No.20528179
>>20523773
Based. Are you me? Do you purposely bring up Pound in every Milton thread like I try to do?
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Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)03:54:38 No.20528232
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)03:54:38 No.20528232
>>20523270
Read it, listen to it preformed, read it again. The third time you won't struggle.T. Read paradise lost multiple times.
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Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)04:12:27 No.20528268
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)04:12:27 No.20528268
>>20528179
Are you the guy who had the same argument with Frater about this multiple times recently? That's how I learned about it, just relaying the information because it seemed directly relevant to OP's request. I have very mixed feelings about both Pound and Milton so I can't agree with you, sorry; it certainly feels awkward to read at times but I still find plenty of value in him and I prefer to stay open-minded to various styles.
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Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)04:17:54 No.20528279
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)04:17:54 No.20528279
>>20526285
False, Ariosto was liked by critics across Europe for 300 years and his disappearance is purely due to the Romantics
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)06:23:17 No.20528551
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)06:23:17 No.20528551
>>20526864
How are you meant to read it then, faggot.
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)07:31:57 No.20528737
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)07:31:57 No.20528737
>>20528551
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GINzUBvQ5nw&ab_channel=BentOuttaShapeC hess
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)09:28:34 No.20529037
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)09:28:34 No.20529037
>>20528737
>ignoring metre so you can LARP as a toff speaking in 1960s RP English
Unironically KYS. That reading is shit BTW.
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)10:16:06 No.20529180
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)10:16:06 No.20529180
>>20523548
This is a just post. One adjusts to Spenser's archaisms and rhythm slowly, for me it took two books, but then he becomes rather fun to read; the point is that it takes time to learn to read him. After reading Shelley, Keats, and especially Wordsworth Milton will attain a force and clarity perhaps unreckonable by the neophyte. Work up from the English Romantics, then
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)10:19:21 No.20529187
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)10:19:21 No.20529187
>>20528737
Why would I read it like this rather than in metre. If I wanted prose I would read a novel.
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)10:55:31 No.20529308
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)10:55:31 No.20529308
>>20529037
>>20529187
Jesus fucking Christ is most of this board passing off "reading da meeetreeee" as an actual useful piece of advice? Did you guys stop with English classes in highschool when your teacher said "iambic lines are read like this :)" and just sorta stopped learning anything about poetry?No one (I do mean, absolutely no one) reads metered verse that way anymore; largely thanks to Ezra Pound. You should read according to 1. Sense 2. Syntax 3. Line breaks and elision 4. Enjambment and energy present in the verse
Listen to Ian speaking Satan's line, and imagine how boring it would be if it was read like this https://youtu.be/v0aAWuUX5jU
>if I wanted prose
Shut the fuck up you have no idea what you're talking about, you literally asked how to read an alexandrine. The extent you know about reading either of those is so minimal I want you to leave the board and actually read a book, you insufferable LARPers.
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)10:57:55 No.20529322
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)10:57:55 No.20529322
>>20528268
I'm the guy who argues with Frater, although it gets really boring really quickly because of how retarded he is and is insane "it's just taste so you can't say I'm wrong" shit
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)13:57:27 No.20530014
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)13:57:27 No.20530014
>>20529308
Wow you're really retarded; I suppose that's just what reading modernists does to someone.Tell me anon, what exciting new modernist works are YOU enjoying of late :^)
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)13:58:27 No.20530020
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)13:58:27 No.20530020
>>20529322
Don't feed tripfags dumb dumb
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)14:06:48 No.20530054
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)14:06:48 No.20530054
>>20530014
Give me a single good reason to read poetry in a stilted manner like that. Literally everyone in college will laugh at you if you do, even classics professors who don't care about modernism.
>B-but you're reading it like proooose aghhh no I'm going insaneee
Fucking brainlet
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)15:54:10 No.20530514
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)15:54:10 No.20530514
>>20530054
>attempting an appeal to authority to colleges
>english colleges
>in 2022
Yup, I'm the brainlet here aren't I :^)
Tell me anon, what's your professor's current gender? Or if there have been too many to list, try to tell me the ones you can remember.
>>
Anonymous
06/15/22(Wed)16:33:17 No.20530653
Anonymous 06/15/22(Wed)16:33:17 No.20530653
You guys are extremely autistic just read it how you want.
Source: https://boards.4channel.org/lit/thread/20523270/does-anyone-else-find-milton-a-much-more
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